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Ever since President Trump took office, surrounded by some of the richest men in the world, Senator Bernie Sanders has been sounding the alarm: “This country today faces an unprecedented level of danger, something that I’ve never seen in my lifetime,” he said. “We are a nation that is moving rapidly toward oligarchy, which means that we have a government run by the billionaire class, for the billionaire class.”
“You’ve had this consistent message for a long time; is there more urgency now in this moment?” I asked.
“I think there is,” Sanders replied. “And in many ways, I suppose, you can thank Elon Musk and Trump for that.”
The 83-year-old’s rallying cry is breaking through, as thousands pack his events. These gatherings, along with other protests, are the latest flashpoints for an emerging Trump opposition.
What does Sanders see from on stage at his rallies? “I think I’m seeing fear, and I’m seeing anger,” he said. “Sixty percent of our people are living paycheck-to-paycheck. Media doesn’t talk about it. We don’t talk about it enough here in Congress.”
What makes the no-nonsense lawmaker from Vermont different from Democrats is that he is not one of them. Sanders ran high-profile races for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016 and 2020, but he is a registered independent.
Right now, he sees not merely a political battle, but a moral and constitutional crisis.
I asked, “Some Republicans chuckle when they see President Trump talk about pursuing a third term. Are you laughing when you hear it?”
“No, I don’t,” Sanders said. “The idea of a third term? Why not? They don’t believe in the rule of law. They don’t believe in the Constitution. So, yeah, I would take that seriously.”
Something else Sanders takes seriously: the sprawling influence of Elon Musk, who has overhauled the federal workforce.
Sanders said, “One of the other concerns when I talk about oligarchy, Bob, it’s not just massive income and wealth inequality. It’s not just the power of the billionaire class. These guys, led by Musk – and as a result of this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision – have now allowed billionaires essentially to own our political process. So, I think when we talk about America is a democracy, I think we should rephrase it, call it a ‘pseudo-democracy.’ And it’s not just Musk and the Republicans; it’s billionaires in the Democratic Party as well.”
“That’s a serious thing to say as a U.S. senator, pseudo-democracy, not a full democracy?” I asked.
“Look, you get one vote, and Elon Musk can spend $270 million to help elect Trump. Does that sound like a democracy to you?”
Sanders also objects to an executive order pressuring major law firms whose clients are seen as hostile to Mr. Trump. Some firms have reached financial agreements with the administration.
I asked, “What do you make of the law firms cutting deals?”
Sanders’ reply: “Absolute cowardice.”
“Some of them seem pretty eager to cut a deal?”
“They do. Because for them, you know, they’re zillion-dollar law firms, and money, money, money. So, they’re gonna sell out their souls to Donald Trump in order to continue to be able to make money here in Washington.”
“What’s the cost to the country when that sort of thing happens?”
Sanders said, “It is indescribable.”
The senator’s mission, at a time when most his age are retired, can be traced back to his Brooklyn roots. “My politics are influenced by two aspects of my life,” he said. “Number one, I grew up in a working-class family. We were never poor; my father worked all the time, just never had any money. It was paycheck-to-paycheck.
“And the other one is, you know, being Jewish, remembering what the Holocaust was about and seeing people in my neighborhood having tattoos, numbers on their arm from concentration camps. So, the kind of racism and the hatred, for whatever reason, that people had against Jews, or Blacks, or Latinos, whatever, that’s also stayed with me.”
Sanders’ prominence was a long time coming. He labored on the fringes of state politics, then on the fringes of Congress. The sparsely-covered news conference for his first presidential bid, launched ten years ago this month, was a portrait of a long shot.
I asked, “Did you think ten years later you’d still be out here doing these rallies, with this message, grinding away?”
“I didn’t know I would be doing this a year ago, no!” he replied. “But you know, you have to do what you have to do.”
“Not every Democrat agrees with your approach. James Carville, for example, says Democrats should roll over and play dead, have a strategic political retreat.”
“And that is why the rich have gotten richer in the last 30 or 40 years, while 60% of our people living paycheck-to-paycheck,” Sanders said. “Our health care system has fallen apart. Our childcare system is dysfunctional. That’s what playing dead is about, and I’m afraid the Democrats have played dead for a long time.”
“You’re speaking to working people, but if you could look the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate in the eye and tell them –”
“I do look at them! I meet with them every day!” he said.
“I know you don’t shy away. But what can you tell them now about what to hear from your rallies, your events?”
“That’s not quite the question,” Sanders said.
“What is the question, then? What do [Democrats] need to know?”
“Why are they held in so low esteem?” Sanders replied. “Why has the working class in this country largely turned away from them? And what do you have to do to recapture that working class? Do you think working people are voting for Trump because he wants to give massive tax breaks to billionaires and cut Social Security and Medicare? I don’t think so. It’s because people say, ‘I am hurting. Democratic Party has talked a good game for years. They haven’t done anything.’ So, I think that the Democratic Party has to make a fundamental decision, and I’m not sure that they will make the right decision, which side are they on? [Will] they continue to hustle large campaign contributions from very, very wealthy people, or do they stand with the working class?”
For Bernie Sanders, the activism, the agitation, the relentless crusade has long been about trying to reach the White House. It is also who he is.
“You’re 83 years old; a lot of people going to these rallies, they tell us they want you to think about 2028,” I said.
“Little bit old to be worrying about those things!” Sanders laughed. “But I’m happy being a U.S. senator from Vermont.”
“And in the arena?”
“And in the arena.”
“You like being in the fight?”
“There are many other things that I would prefer to be doing,” Sanders said.
“That’s the one thing I’d fact-check you on a little bit.”
“Oh, I enjoy the rallies.”
“And you enjoy the political fight?”
“If your question is, do I get inspired by talking and meeting with people all over the country? Deeply. This is what keeps me going,” Sanders said. “In other words, life exists outside of Capitol Hill.”
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Story produced by Gabriel Falcon and Ed Forgotson. Editor: Chad Cardin.
Robert Costa is a national correspondent for “CBS News Sunday Morning” and chief Washington analyst for CBS News.
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